♪.¸¸.*´¯`*.¸♥ ৡ.†.Dannielle.†.ৡ ♥¸.*´¯`*.¸¸.♪ (000sundancer000) wrote in marriage_debate,
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000sundancer000
marriage_debate

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First Post-- Questions Answered

Is homosexuality wrong?
The Bible unmistakably and repetitively tells us that homosexual activity is a sin! (Genesis 19:1-13; Leviticus 18:22; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9).

What about the people who can’t help it?
God did not create people with homosexual desires. Our old sin natures are the reason for homosexuals in this world. (Rom 1:24-27) It is their own choice. A person may be born with a greater vulnerability to homosexuality, as are people who are born with a tendency to violence, slothfulness, or other sins. That does not excuse the person choosing to sin by giving into their sinful desires. If a person is born with a weakness to anger, does that make it right for then to give into those desires? Certainly not. The same is true for homosexuality.

What is so wrong with letting homosexuals marry?
Up until the past couple of years, it was unheard of and absolutely hilarious and ridiculously absurd to tolerate two people of the same sex to even think of getting married. The meaning of marriage isn’t something that each generation is free to redefine. Marriage is defined by God, and any society with brains will protect that.

All people have the right to marry, as long as you follow a few simple rules. 1.) You can’t marry anyone if you are already married. 2.) You can’t marry a close relative. 3.) An adult can not marry a child. 4.) You can’t marry your pet. 5.) You can’t marry someone of the same gender. There you go. The five simple rules of marriage. If we allow homosexuals to be married, the next thing we know, people will be marrying their grandmas, uncles, moms, kids, Fido, or Rover. I don’t even have to tell you that this is sick; I think we all agree.

Shouldn’t homosexuals have the same right as heterosexuals to marry?
No U.S. court has ever recognized, nor has any scientific study ever proven that homosexuality is rooted in nature. Therefore, as far as we know, homosexuals are born heterosexuals but are affected by biological, psychological, and social factors.

So how does God feel about gays and lesbians?
God’s forgives homosexuality just as He forgives any other sin—the same as adulterers, idol worshippers, murderers, thieves, etc. God’s loves homosexuals just as He loves anyone else (John 3:16; Romans 5:8). God also promises the strength for victory over sin, including homosexuality, to all those who will believe in Jesus Christ for their salvation (1 Cor 6:11; 2 Cor 5:17).

What is marriage?
Marriage is the uniting of two souls to become one flesh in Holy matrimony before friends, family, each other, and God. God ordained Marriage to be between one man and one woman (Genesis 2:21-24; Matthew 19:4-6).
To give sanction to homosexual marriage would be to give approval to that lifestyle, which the Bible clearly and consistently condemns as sinful. Homosexual marriage is a perversion of the institution of marriage and an enormous offense to the God who created marriage. God forbids and condemns homosexuality, so He clearly is opposed to homosexual marriage.

You aren’t being very fair. What do you have against homosexuals, anyway?
As Christians, we are commanded by God to be loving and kind to homosexuals, while at the same time not overlooking their sinful lifestyle. We should be acceptable of them as human beings, but not accepting of their behavior. Therefore, I believe that homosexual marriage should not legal.

www.nogaymarriage.com
Sign the petition above to our government!

Think of it this way:
The whole purpose and meaning of marriage would be destroyed. Marriage would merely become an emotional relationship that’s flexible enough to include any grouping of loving adults. If it’s fair for two men or two women to marry, then why not three or five or seventeen? The terms “husband” and “wife” would become words with no meaning.

Parenthood would consist of any number of emotionally attached people who care for kids. The unique roles of mother and father would be eliminated.

Gender would be nothing. Our society hates to think that we are different from each other. Everyone wants to be accepted, and everyone wants to be treated like we all have no differences. Consequently, everyone develops into “Mr. Potato Head”, and there aren’t any real, deep differences between the two sexes except body parts. If real differences didn’t exist, women wouldn’t need men, and men wouldn’t need women.

There are clear differences between men and women. Women have characteristics and things to offer that men do not possess enough of, and men have characteristics and things to offer women that they do not possess enough of. The two come together, and balance one another out and make a perfect “puzzle piece fit” together. Unfortunately, our society has come to believe that women and men are one-in-the-same, have no differentiation.


Feel free to comment, and ask many more questions. I will try my best to answer them.
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  • 71 comments
Homosexual marriage- it's a touchy subject. There are countless views regarding the moral and ethical standards called into question when the topic is brought up. However, the government's personal is not here to advocate for their personal beliefs or their religion's. They are there to protect, aid and nurture our country. It is for the following reasons that I urge you to support same sex marriages. First our country prides itself on being a land of the free, prohibiting homosexual marriages is a violation of gay people's basic human rights. Secondly by depriving any citizen's their rights we are only feeding prejudices against our fellow man, and we detract from the unity of our nation.

While the common image of marriage is strictly that of love and romance, there is a legal side to it as well. With marriage comes some 400 taxing and medical benefits. These benefits often assuage the financial hardships faced by couples living together and trying to raise a family.

I am not rallying for those who find homosexual lifestyles offensive to change their mind set. However, it is apalling that our country supports setting a precedent for hate. Gays are not the first people to be denied their right to marriage. It was not until after the Civil War ended that all African-Americans were granted the right to marry. It was only after a U.S. Supreme Court decision in 1967 that mixed race couples could marry anywhere in the U.S. These marriages were strictly regulated on the premise that white people were better than blacks. The same message oozes from the laws that make marriage impossible for homsexuals.

Citizens of the United States who have broken the law are incarcerated. Most of their privileges such as voting or driving are revoked. However they are still permitted to marry. Thus my basis for calling marriage a right. If citizens whom have broken the law are still allowed their basic human rights, then what is the basis for disallowing law abiding homosexuals to marry?

Other people may try to dissuade you by saying that by granting homosexuals the right to marry is imposing un-Christian beliefs unto the churches and synagogues of our country. They are wrong. Marriage is a legal status obtained in a court house, not in a place of worship. The rules of Church and State are clearly being ignored. The hate of those with differing sexual orientation is no different than that of Blacks, Muslims, or Jews. I implore you to at least consider what sort of a government you stand for- that which permits all it's people the right to live, love and pursuit happiness- or that which only allows it's choice few citizens those basic human rights.
But is it a right to marry the same sex? That is just the question I am asking. There has to be laws in this country. Certain things are wrong. You can't murder someone just because "it's a free country," nor can you rape someone because it is a free country. Everyone agrees that murder and rape are wrong. Most people agree that same sex marriages are wrong. The laws are laid down to protect us and to keep order. Legalizing same sex marriages would create utter chaos and people wouldn't know one sex from the other if humans just kept marrying their own gender.
i'M straighT... buT homosexualS SHOULD havE thE righT tO marrY!!! (onlY iF theY arE trulY iN lovE!!!)
Ditto...love for the one has nothing to do with religion! And we don't mean the physical kind, either.
one also has to consider that the bible was translated by a human, and said translation was subject to HIS personal views, meaning that all content is tainted by their opinion on how things should be; with that in mind, i can't really put much faith in what is said on certain subjects.

didn't christ say to love all people, regardless? where's the compassion, love thy neighbor and all that other crap 'christians' constantly preach? i'll tell you where it is; it is subject to the individual's outlook and ignored on a by case basis, proving that 'christians' don't practice what they preach, just practice what's in line with their personal opinions.
"As Christians, we are commanded by God to be loving and kind to homosexuals, while at the same time not overlooking their sinful lifestyle. We should be acceptable of them as human beings, but not accepting of their behavior."

I said that up there.

I am not saying that I hate gay people or anything. I am not saying that at all. I don't think any other Christian is, either. In fact, I have a lot of gay friends. I don't hate them, I just hate their behavior. And as for the Bibical translation-- some people just have faith that it IS God's word, and you just have to trust that man didn't interfere with the translating of it. You just have faith. Believe.

rubberfrog

13 years ago

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000sundancer000

13 years ago

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rubberfrog

13 years ago

The biggest problem here is that you seem to be trying to make a case against gay (secular) marriage (". . . any society with brains will protect that."), but aside from that one half-sentence with no other provided justification, your case is entirely against gay (sacred) marriage. This is probably an instance of the fallacy of equivocation. I would suggest that you shore this up one way or another so that conversation can be better furthered, by either expounding on your comment which I quoted above, by only arguing against sacred gay marriage, or by secularly supporting a claim against secular gay marriage.
You're right about that sentence, that was wrong of me to say "any society with brains," because that was bashing other people who have a right to their opinions. Sometimes I just get fired up when I talk about gay rights! Thanks for reminding me. :-)
You're a fucking moron.

There's my debate.
No, she's not. She thought through her decision, analyzed the Bible and homosexual relationships, and came to her own conclusion. She doesn't hate anyone and she's not condemning anyone. Just because her views differ from yours and mine does NOT make her - and does NOT give you the right to - call her a "fucking moron".

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000sundancer000

13 years ago

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boxspringhog

12 years ago

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changeling0203

12 years ago

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boxspringhog

12 years ago

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changeling0203

12 years ago

labled

12 years ago

I am not a Christian and do not agree with your stance, but I understand where you're coming from. However, our forefathers established our constitution because they were being persecuted by the religious establishments in Europe. They came here and founded our country based partially on the principals of freedom FROM religion. There is a thing here called "separation of chruch and state" writen into the constitution. This was to ensure that one religious group could not control the government and oppress those who did not share their religious views. So, while your arguements are all based in your obviously strong faith, as an American I believe that we all have the duty to stand up for others' freedom under the constitution, and to keep one religion from overruling the rights of others. I may not agree with your opinions and how you choose to express them, but I would die for your right to have them, and that's what this country is about.

I wish you happieness and blessings in your life!
Thanks! You too.

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__miko__

13 years ago

I've got several issues with sects of Christianity crusading against marriage of homosexual persons. Most of the time, I think the Bible is just used an excuse to condemn a behavior a person doesn't approve of, while conveniently ignoring the parts that condemn what him- or herself is doing. On a related note, dividing the Bible into chapters and verses was probably the worst single thing to happen to Christianity in its history.

I don't think it's worthwhile at this point to go into historical context analyses, partially because all my research on that front is in a box in my attic, so instead I'll just posit a few things. You quote from the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. In that story (19:8), Lot offers to let the men satisfy their lust on his two daughters instead of on the angels sent by God. Isn't, then, the proper thing for a Christian condemning homosexual behavior to do offering up their daughters? That would certainly fit with what I've heard sign-carriers preach: that all a homosexual needs to turn from their ways is a real man or woman, respectively.

Leviticus, yeah, it's in there. But also in there is that it's a sin to eat pork. I don't see too many Christians lobbying Congress to protect the sanctity of meals.

Romans, sure. But also in there is that adultery is wrong, and remarriage after divorce is adultery by Jesus' own words (Luke 16:18). Some estimates are that 43% of the Religious Right is remarried, but they are the ones who most loudly try and enforce the sanctity of marriage. What sanctity? The sanctity that they are knowingly breaking by engaging in a, "lifestyle sin?"
I didn't know you felt so strongly about this. I feel strongly about it, but on the opposite end of the spectrum. Like you, I believe in love, but I also believe gender has nothing to do with finding one's soulmate. I don't think it's a sin. I believe that God loves everyone and wouldn't punish people for something like who one has sex with - as long as that sex is mutual and doesn't exploit anyone and is done out of love.

I don't really want to get in a big debate with you because obviously this is something we both feel passionately about. I know my mind won't be changed and yours won't, either. So let's agree to disagree?

Deleted comment

The Bible does NOT say that slavery is right. It says that if you insist on having slaves, at least treat them with respect and dignancy and as equals. Therefore, they aren't slaves at all if you treat them better than you treat yourself and pay them for all their hard work.

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000sundancer000

12 years ago

merubin

12 years ago

000sundancer000

12 years ago

merubin

12 years ago

000sundancer000

12 years ago

luvszoe

12 years ago

merubin

12 years ago

luvszoe

12 years ago

000sundancer000

12 years ago

changeling0203

12 years ago

000sundancer000

12 years ago

Laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as manners and opinions change, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors." Thomas Jefferson

I put this quote here because I think that it is our governments responsibilty to grow and adapt as society grows. I have no arhument against the origianl post as a gay male, mainly because I do not believe in a Christian God. As I don't have the information in front of me right now, A lrage percentage of our population is not Christian. Therefore wouldn't banning a gay marriage be imposing Christian morality on those of us who are not Christian. Our country is founded on the principal that chruch and state are seperate entities.

So it is not really the governments place to define marriage. Marriage is a religious matter. So if two guys or two girls love one another and they can find a church willing to do the ceremony why not?

Please reply if you have something that I have overlooked in my argument.
I noticed in your original post you took a very distinctly Christian stand on the issue of gay marriage. I have nothing against this seeing as it is your belief and you are completely entitled to it however I do see something wrong with using religion as an arguement because there are so many religions out there and because no two believe the same thing it is impossible to understand how all of them see the issue.
[i]"however I do see something wrong with using religion as an arguement because there are so many religions out there and because no two believe the same thing it is impossible to understand how all of them see the issue."[/i]

This isn't really a good tack to take. The reason personal religious beliefs are generally used in moral debate is because of the nature of most monotheistic religions. Given the existence of a morally perfect being (which God is by definition), anything it doesn't like is automatically morally wrong. The existence of a being like that is a matter of objective fact--that is, it either exists or it doesn't, without regard to anything else--so it's also a great thing to use in a debate, so to speak, since the veracity of your statement is mostly unfalsifiable, and if you're right, you're absolutely right by the intrinsic moral fabric of the Universe . . . as long as you know what your source material actually says.
you have given us no argument about why gay marriage should be illeagal. almost all of your arguments are faith-based. our goverment separates church and state. you can't use the bible to decide what should be legal and what shouldn't.
The Bible is God's Word.
The Bible is our law and everything in it is God's own lips speaking to us. God is our ultimate law maker and we are to follow His command and what He tells us to do.

Our country was founded on the Bible. Our principles and values are held by what we find in the Bible.

I don't care what anyone says.
I answer to the Great Judge.
His final Word is the absolute bottom line and no one can change it. If He says, "homosexuality is a disgusting sin," then it is so.

Do not question Him.
Our country is going down the toilet.

hwmnbnlover

12 years ago

000sundancer000

12 years ago

It scares me that people like you exist. You need to open your eyes, hun.

The last time they mixed religion and politics, people were burned at the stake. Think about it. Mindsets like yours also started the Inquisition, the Crusasdes... you name it. If you're passionate about your religion, that's great. BUT WE CAN'T BASE OUR COUNTRY'S LAWS OFF OF A SINGLE RELIGION!

As much as you'd like it to be... America is NOT a theocracy. Believe it or not, you share the same country with Jews, Muslims, Atheists, Buddhists, Pagans, Wiccans, and a shitload of other religions. Did you know that back in the day, they used to justify slavery in the United States with (dun, dun, dunn!) THE BIBLE?! Yes, slavery. As in black people, serving white people. They were "inferior". Maybe if you picked up Uncle Tom's Cabin instead of the fucking Bible, you'd know that. They used the same defense when all the bureaucrats didn't want women to vote. THE BIBLE SAYS IT'S WRONG! OH, NO! Oh, please.

And the same part of the Bible that condemns homosexuality also condemns men who let their hair grow past the temples (a.k.a. sideburns), people who do not have "perfect sight" (anyone with glasses or contacts), and many other things. So you only follow the parts of your faith that you WANT to? Gee, how swell. You people give a loving religion a bad name. Bush is to Christianity as Osama is to Islam. Suck on that. Homosexuality isn't a choice, as much as you want it to be.

Do us all a favor. Read Uncle Tom's Cabin. Read The Giver. Read Fahrenheit 451. Read 1984. You might actually learn something.

Oh, yeah... just a side note to shut all you self-righteous "Christian" assholes up. You know the "Christian" act of having Christmas trees and wreaths in the home? Those traditions actually stemmed from Pagan religious practices of bringing plants indoors. So is that considered "teh evil!!!1one!", too? After all, it is (gasp) HEATHEN! [[rolls eyes]] Because I fail to believe that none of you have ever had a Christmas tree or wreath in your home before...
So many times I've heard the slavery issue brought up. Let's be real here: the people twisted the Bible to fit their needs. People do that all the time. I admit, sometimes even I tend to twist the Bible to say what I want it to say... but we CAN'T do that.


Homosexuality is not just against many religions but it is a moral issue that is greatly debated. Just like abortion, legalized prostition, legalized marajuna, racism... etc. the list goes on.

000sundancer000

12 years ago

you asked..." when does one decide to be gay?" well if your saying that homosexualty is a choice...then the same must be said about heterosexuality...just a thought.
I have given this some thought before I replied.

I would have to say I understand where you are coming from, but I disagree with you.

If homosexuality is a choice, then it is a conscious decision to not be "normal" (in which normal would be unconsciously being attracted to the opposite sex)

All my life I've loved boys, thought they were handsome, and wanted to kiss them. I've never in my life ever wanted to marry a woman or kiss a woman. I've thought women were beautiful, but in a totally different way than I thought men were beautiful ;) I never really chose to like guys, I was just born that way. Most people who are gay DO NOT display attraction to the opposite sex until their late teen years or even early adulthood. IN fact, most gay men/women like the opposite sex in the begining of their life and then decide that they are homosexual or bisexual.
Parenthood would consist of any number of emotionally attached people who care for kids. The unique roles of mother and father would be eliminated.

Yes, because this would be the most terrible thing, ever.

Maybe two adults aren't enough to raise a child. As the old saying goes, "it takes a village to raise a child." Not that this has anything to do with why gay marriage should be legal - that's just common courtesy and a display of humanity, which I'm sure Jesus would have no qualms with.
Jesus would have no qualms with what?

I think it takes a community to raise a child. A community of tight-knit, loving people who look out for the child's well being as in a school setting or church.
Give me a logical reason why Homosexuals should not marry that does not involve Religion in any way, and I will never debate again
A child deserves both a mother and a father. Can two people of the same sex make a child? Certainly not, that would be unnatural. Why do you think it's designed for two people of the opposite sex to have children? Because couples are supposed to be one of each gender. That's just the way nature works and that's the way it's supposed to be.
The bible is irrelevant when discussing something as serious as weather a couple should be allowed to marry. Not every gay person is Christian, you are committing a sin against American by trying to rule over me with your Religion. You are denying me my freedom to Religion. I heard a Preacher say that " In god's eyes, a sin is a sin, there is no greater sin." If every sin is the same, then my " sin " of homosexual desire is no worse then your sin of treason.

If everyone is God's children, even the sinners. Then technically you just contradicted yourself as a Christian. IF God made all of us, then he would have made out desires as well. Unless you are insisting that heterosexual desires are sinful too.

The issue of weather homosexuality is a chemical reaction or someone choices to be a homosexual is still under discussion. Personally, why would anyone choose a lifestyle where you are dictated by people who can't separate government from personal life? If you ask most gay people they will say that they would not choose this lifestyle, I know that I would not. The choice to engage in homosexual activity is there, but even if a gay person acts straight, the feelings are always there.

Someone is born with anger. It's like a human instinct(LIKE ONE). Are you contradicting yourself again? Yes.


Biracial marriage was also a big issue, not too long ago. That was what people used as an excuse when they said, everyone has the right to marry, BUT ONLY IF YOU FOLLOW THESE RULES. Look, Black people can marry. White people can marry black people. Do you see people marrying their dogs? Do you see people marrying their grandmas? Nope.You are being a drama queen about the whole subject.



Shouldn’t homosexuals have the same right as heterosexuals to marry?
No U.S. court has ever recognized, nor has any scientific study ever proven that homosexuality is rooted in nature. Therefore, as far as we know, homosexuals are born heterosexuals but are affected by biological, psychological, and social factors.


That did not answer the question.

God Forbids adultery. I don't see everyone jumping up and crying, trying to have a constitutional amendment passed about adultery.



If you could give me a good solid explanation of why Homosexuals should not marry, besides Religion, nothing about your Religion, then I will shut up.
I need to clarify some things and also refute some comments you made. Please allow me to do so, and please do not think I am being rude at all. I only want to help explain to you what I mean and what I think and believe. You are entitled to your own opinions, but please don't think I'm

You are committing a sin against American by trying to rule over me with your Religion.
Our country was founded on the Biblical principles, and I think we both agree that most people happen to agree with the basic laws of the Bible and that they are bad (even if they don't follow them.) Don't lie, don't cheat, don't steal, murder, commit adultry etc. I believe the Bible is full of wonderful rules that will help keep society happy and thriving. But I also believe that it is the law God gave us and He expects us to keep it. He doesn't expect those who do not believe in Him to keep His laws, however. Sometimes I as a human being tend to forget that not everyone acknowledges His existance. And I shouldn't try to force society to believe what I believe.

Would you rather trust in something that may or may not be true? Or would you rather have faith in the Truth?


"In God's eyes, a sin is a sin, there is no greater sin."
And that is true. All sin is bad. If I sin just one sin my entire life I am no better of a person than Joe Shmuck who sleeps around with every man's wife.

If everyone is God's children, even the sinners. Then technically you just contradicted yourself as a Christian.
How did I contradict myself?

IF God made all of us
There is so much evidence to prove that He did... I'd like to talk to you about this sometime! IM me DLADramaQueen if you are interested at all.

...hen He would have made out desires as well.
He did. He made our desire for love, but He did not make us with sinful desires. Sinful desires comes from our own sinful nature and also from the devil.

Unless you are insisting that heterosexual desires are sinful too.
Why would they be? Because God designed sex and created the whole process of sexual intercourse and child bearing and said to Adam and Eve. "Be fruitful and multiply." It's not a sin to have sex as long as you're married. I also believe that heterosexual desires outside of wedlock are not sins as long as you don't act upon them. If you dwell on the thoughts that is called lust and is also a sin. (But no one is perfect and everyone has stumbled on this at one point or another. God understands that we aren't perfect.)

Someone is born with anger. It's like a human instinct(LIKE ONE).
That's because Adam and Eve sinned and passed on the sinful nature to all their decendants. That's why we're born sinful.

God Forbids adultery. I don't see everyone jumping up and crying, trying to have a constitutional amendment passed about adultery.
They should. Adultry is such a problem and has torn so many families apart. It has been the pain and lament of so many children and people who's spouse cheated on them.

Anonymous

October 13 2005, 18:13:48 UTC 11 years ago

This is not a logical argument, it is a rant. Let me first begin with your use of the Bible as a shield. The Bible has been interpreted more than once over the course of time, and by many different people. Unless you have the original texts written, you have no way of knowing that the scholars who translated the text did not add to, or take away from the original writings to make it seem the way they wanted it to. Also, as history would tell you, the man in charge of having the most popular version of the Bible, the King James version, was also homosexual. I am in no way criticizing the Bible, I am just stating the fact that it has been interpreted over time, and different faiths even have different versions of the Bible. You also use bizarre possibilities to back up your argument, such as people marrying their close family members, or animals. We, as intelligent people, should know that such a thing would never happen. Asking for equal marriage rights is not an absurd idea, it is simply asking to end discrimination in this "free" country.
Yes, well, while we have many interpretations and versions and translations of the Bible, most are the same or very similar. I never heard about the homosexual man who translated the Bible into English who was gay... maybe you are right, but I've never heard this! Wow! Are you sure this information is correct? Where did you hear it?

coltsanders

11 years ago

000sundancer000

11 years ago

coltsanders

11 years ago

I am not christian. Your argument is based in christianity, therefore it is irrelevent to me, so why should I be dictated to around who I can, or cannot, marry?
Ok well how about this:
It's not natural. Nature designed the two beings to need one another. The opposites attract and fit together. It is not natural for two of the same sex to come together.

Re: Your argument lacks relevence

Anonymous

10 years ago

You yanks need to calm down the religious bullshit.
Take a leaf out of your creators the Europeans book eh?
The Pope lives in Rome but Rome is filled to the brim with gay clubs.
Jesus didn't write the Bible. I don't think he minds if your gay or straight or someone who finds horses sexually attractive, you'll be judged for what you do not who you are.
I'm a lesbian, from a strict Italian/Irish Roman Catholic family. I am out to all my family and none of them judge me because they know my sexuality doesn't define me. I am a person, not a label.
Let gays get married for god sake. If Britney whore bag Spears can get married 10,000 times (by the way Catholicism denounces divorce as a sin) then why can't a gay couple give it a go?